PayPal woes….
November 10th, 2009
Ok so fast growth on eBay isn’t all its cracked up to be. When I got aggressive using my Simplx account to sell on eBay I had originally set the goal to grow from $250,000 in annual sales (that I was comfortably doing) to $10 million to $15 million over the course of the next year. The Simplx model provides me with that opportunity for that type of growth, but I learned that just because you can grow fast doesn’t mean you necessarily should. So the purpose of my blog entry today is to share my growth experience and temporary demise with my eBay account to hopefully help you still clear of the same pitfall.
In July of this year I set the goal to start growing my account and instantly grew my account from $20,000 in June sales to $300,000 in July sales. That was where we first went wrong. I have had a PayPal account opened for years showing good consistent clean processing volume, but the moment my account jumped that dramatically I found myself on a conference call with my personal PayPal account manager and a lady (whose name we do not speak — so I don’t throw up in my mouth). The determined necessary action was that a reserve account should be implemented immediately to help protect PayPal in the amount of 10% of all volume for a 4 month period. I knew immediately that on a 5% to 7% profit margin I wouldn’t be able to make the model work with a 10% reserve. Essentially that means that I would run a negative cash flow model of 5% for 4 months. At processing volume of $300,00 per month (with zero growth) I would have to have $60,000 of extra available cash to just break even (not including the value of my time or the time of employees that help run the business). I explained this to PayPal and said that they could go ahead and shut the account down because I couldn’t run a negative cash flow model. The decision that followed (since they did want to work with me and show they were flexible) was to lower the reserve to 5%. My response to them was, “ok let’s give it our best shot.” Unfortunately I think I saw the writing on the wall before we ever began…..
PayPal’s Perspective
Now to be fair to PayPal and to the lady of whose name we do not speak, I think it is only fair to try and understand things from their perspective with the end of making the right decisions in your business to “stay under the radar” and know PayPal’s response (or any merchant accounts’ response for that matter) to changes they analyze in your business. When you process a credit card a merchant account provider (such as PayPal) is extending a form of credit to your business. They are trusting that when you take money from your customer, you are giving them what you promised and that they will be happy. If not, the customer has the option through credit card regulations to dispute the charge based off a set of dispute reason codes. Typically the dispute liability period is 6 months. That means that your customer has the option for up to 6 months after you have taken and spent their money to contact their credit card company and dispute the charge. What if you spend that money and 6 months later that customer disputes the charge with good reason. If you don’t have the money to put back in your PayPal account then ultimately PayPal takes that loss and they will do their best to try and recover the funds from you. Now from a credit extension perspective with the volume on my account PayPal looks at the liability period over 6 months of processing with the volume I did in July at $1,800,000. Now we all know that it is not possible to collect $1,800,000 in sales over 6 months and have all of those customers not be happy, but it is possible that someone could push customers off for a month or so before PayPal even knew there was a problem, and PayPal is not interested in getting stuck holding a $300,000 bag of debt from doing business with one customer. Now we both know that neither you or I would do that to our merchant account provider, but apparently there are people out there that have done that or that intend to do that which is why this industry is so highly regulated.
Visa and MasterCard Regulations
PayPal just like any merchant account provider is put under strict regulations by Visa and MasterCard to help ensure the integrity and safety of the credit card processing industry. Consumers drive the credit card business and so naturally the rules and regulations are put in place mostly to protect consumers. One of those regulations that will help you understand PayPal’s response to disputes and charge backs that you may receive has to do with the ratio of charge backs to total sales that your account receives. PayPal operates a little differently than normal merchant account providers in this regard because they are listed as a master merchant with Visa/MasterCard and not separate merchant accounts, but the sum of their total sales receipts is still scrutinized and analyzed by the same ratios and so PayPal still holds merchants to the same standard to make sure their combined total complies. What those ratios and regulations say is that if a merchant receives more than .5% in charge backs to total volume of sales or to number of sales then the merchant account provider is required to report that merchant to Visa/MasterCard as a high charge back merchant. If that merchant remains as a high charge back merchant for several months in a row then Visa/MasterCard begin assessing fines on the merchant account provider. If a merchant receives more than 1% in charge backs and the merchant account provider chooses to keep their account open, in addition to the increased fines, the merchant is required to report to Visa/MasterCard the merchant as an excessive charge back merchant along with their plan as they have discussed with the merchant to reduce the charge backs below the maximum allowable limit of .5%.
PayPal Dispute vs Charge back
I have been asked this question before about what the difference is between a charge back and a PayPal dispute. In short, a PayPal dispute is PayPal’s internal method for dealing with a charge back without the customer having to involve their credit card company and subject PayPal to handling the matter according to their process and fees. Most dispute processes can be resolved without involving PayPal at all. When a dispute is first opened it provides a medium for you to communicate with your customer and find a resolution to the problem. If the dispute can’t be resolved then either you or your customer may escalate the dispute to a PayPal claim at any time. Then a PayPal representative will get involved in the process, review the current correspondence, request additional information, and make a final decision.
Finishing my story…
After PayPal implemented the 5% reserve we were able to keep up with the orders for a couple of months, but not for the full 4 months that PayPal was requiring. I have $50,000 in a PayPal reserve account that was money needed to process orders, but we slowly started falling behind. As we fell behind on orders the number of PayPal disputes began to rise, and PayPal’s response to the increase in disputes was to put a 100% reserve on the account until we could demonstrate that all of the orders were being fulfilled in a timely fashion. Now I don’t know about you, but I decided that it is very difficult to fulfill orders and conduct business when I don’t have access to 100% of the funds that the business is generating. At this point I got my personal representative and his boss from eBay involved to see if they could help talk some sense into PayPal. eBay has been excellent to work with through this dilemma. My manager and his boss even drove down to my office and met with us for a few hours. However their efforts in trying to get PayPal on the same page with us were futile and ultimately PayPal’s decisions have not only caused the initial predicament, but have perpetuated the problem beyond recovery. I did learn however that there is a point that you can become numb to the sting of waking up in the morning and finding that first negative feedback on your account.
Resolution and moving forward
At this point the restrictions put in place have rendered impossible our efforts to salvage either of the accounts that we have used in this business. After discussing this further with eBay and PayPal we will issue refunds to the customer that haven’t yet received their products from the huge reserve account that they are holding and the remainder of the funds will be released according to the original calendar put in place. We are starting fresh with a new eBay account and we will be using a different merchant processor for new eBay orders, which may limit our market slightly for those customers that prefer to use the “funny money” sitting in their PayPal account, but not enough that we still won’t be able to hit the new growth objectives.
Lesson Learned
Everybody wants to grow and grow fast, but just because you can does not mean that you should. After this experience and discussing this growth with PayPal, I would say that a 20% monthly growth objective will help you reach whatever sales objectives you put in place for your business while being conservative enough for your merchant account processor to avoid a reserve. The Simplx model is a high volume low margin model that I have proved just does not work with a reserve, unless you have the cash to fund the negative monthly cash flows and want to use it to grow quickly with the expectation that you will have a reserve. I think the most important thing is that you communicate with your merchant account processor. Let them know the details about how your business model works up front. Ask them what you need to do to avoid a reserve.
Popularity: 15% [?]
Simplicity Management Group has become a global technology leader through the development of Simplx, iRebate Technologies, iCart Commerce, and other eCommerce web solutions.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:49 am
I can so relate to this story. PayPal put us out f busness with the “frozen funds” ploy. We grew too fast and they put the hammer down. Unill we can survive on ebay without PayPal, there will be hell to pay.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
what a story. I have been following the irebates profile on ebay for some time now and I am sad to see this happen. I am still interested in the simplx program and I would like to know the new ebay profile name so I can continue to see your progress.
November 16th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
i put a typo in my email address for my last comment.
Thanks.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Hi Samuel,
Thank you for your support and interest in my eBay account. Yes I agree it is sad to see that some of the decision makers at PayPal take action based on numbers alone and not on people, business models, or other factors that I provided them that should have made them feel comfortable.
We have not yet decided on whether we will be starting a new account or pushing clean sales through our old account. We are still in the process of resolving all outstanding orders and then the folks at eBay will give us the option. If we can push more than 400 sales through our account within a 90 day period then the new top rated seller program only looks at the last 90 days to qualify and all of the past transaction won’t matter. I guess at this point it depends on how fast we can grow without PayPal or an alternate merchant account issuing a reserve.
I will post new developments as they occur….stay tuned.
Best Regards,
Adam
November 21st, 2009 at 1:11 am
Ok,
Sounds clearer now, thank for the post
November 25th, 2009 at 3:13 am
Great, clear and insightful article. This is a testiment to organized and affordable growth. Thank you
December 8th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I can relate, just starting out last month I made sales of $4500 a week after just 2 weeks of awsome sales paypal froze all my money and closed my account even after many attempts to provide all info they requested. I refunded buyers who had not recieved items, this money was supposed to come out of the paypal account but they charged it to my bank account. Was a complete disasster for me and I am trying to recover and start over again with a new ebay account and I am looking for a new merchant account as paypal has given me a bad taste. Your blog has given me much advice as to how I should move forward and not give up thank you.
December 9th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
That happened to me the day after my 41st birthday, 3 years ago! I had done business on ebay for 5 years at that time. I sold everything from automobiles to dvd’s. When I finally found my niche I did over $8,500 in my first week with the new products. My customers were receiving their items with satisfaction. No complaints what so ever. Then paypal decided to freeze my account. I responded to each request they made. The only thing that I would not do is give them the phone numbers to my suppliers. Why would they even ask for that? Of course I had to begin issuing refunds because paypal would not allow me to do anything else with the money that I had made. I am a single father and that was the beginning to a financial disaster. Ebay has given paypal too much power!
December 9th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Papi,
That is definitely very unfortunate. Thanks for sharing your experience; I think these type of stories can help other members be more informed and help them avoid the same pitfalls.
Regards,
Adam
December 13th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
This was very interesting and has helped me make the decision to not use PayPal. I knew they had problems with this awhile back, but had not followed up recently on their action. I used a service for quite awhile that charged a reasonable monthly charge + lowered credit card charges, and that had worked very well. Guess I’ll go back to that route. I had told many people over the years to not use PayPal if they expected to sell in large numbers and high dollar amounts. Should have just gone with my own advice, but searching out this blog was invaluable to me. Thanks, everyone, for your input
December 15th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
I am really looking seriously at simplx. My goal has been for fast growth but now I see that I need to make my targeted growth gradual. Thanks for the insite.
December 18th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Here is my latest experience with an ebay company. If you read my post above you will see just how disappointed I am with ebay companies. After my business was distroyed by paypal a few years ago I stayed away from the net as far as making money. I love being able to make a good living from home and take care of my daughter. Not to mention that fact that it is actually fun! I really missed it over the years and with things being so bad in the U.S. it is tough finding a job. In Setember,09 opened a business account on half.com after reading a blog similar to this one. I didn’t use it until December 1,09. I did $13,000 in sales in my first two weeks which just ended 3 days ago. I did another $1,900 in sales in the last two days. My rating is 100% NO COMPLAINTS! This morning I went online to do some work only to see that half.com had suspended my account! What is wrong with these people? I have not received a dime for what I have shiped to customers. Half.com pays through direct deposit around 7 days after the end of the pay period. In my case it was on the 15th. So, will I get paid or not? I can not even give shiping updates or refunds. Its Christmas and these morons will effect hundreds of people not to mention my wallet. Why is it that once you learn how to do volume business on ebay they won’t allow you to?
December 21st, 2009 at 11:55 pm
thinking out side the box after reading the horror stories i think there is a ghost company lurking in the back ground just waiting for that perfect product and volume slamming the door shut on you snatching the product, suppler and consumer and leaving you scratching your head wondering what the hell just happened
put that one in your pipe and smoke it
January 5th, 2010 at 11:26 pm
Yes Scott, I’m glad that you have taken that from the discussions on this blog. Any business can suffocate themselves from growing too fast unless they have the capital to support the growth.
January 21st, 2010 at 1:57 am
[...] See my previous blog PayPal Woes. [...]
January 23rd, 2010 at 8:45 pm
Hello Adam,
Just read this blog and it makes me very nervous.
We’ve shared emails before and i’m still interested in selling products using Simplx as my dropship company. If i was to start selling products and experienced high volume sales in my E-Bay Store, What do you recommend we do? What suggestions do you have for other merchant accounts without going through PayPal?
February 21st, 2010 at 2:35 am
E-Bay owns PayPal and they changed the payment rules to where you can only go through PayPal.
February 21st, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Adam, Ever thought about raising this issue about Ebay & Paypal to a news source such as CNN, Fox News, or Associated Press?. We need to raise awareness of the pitfalls and disturbing issues that arise for individuals who are trying to earn a living with a home business. I think it’s important to get the word out.
D’Ann